Destination Moon, Mars and beyond - Dr. G. Madhavan Nair

NDTV interview with Madhavan Nair

Dr. G. Madhavan Nair, chairman of the Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) joins us for an exclusive interview in the clean room of the ISRO where they are making the Chandrayaan satellite.

NDTV: So sir, are you hopeful of reaching the moon?
G Madhavan Nair: Well I think we have done our best, we should go there soon.

NDTV: So now we are where? We are in the clean room sir

G Madhavan Nair: No, this is actually a room since the early days- for the Aryabhatta satellite onwards. They are built here and normally the earth observation satellites or any imaging system will have their lenses and other things fitted here, so they have to be in an extremely clean protected environment.

NDTV: Oh, so we can see so this is Chandrayaan (points to the satellite) ?
G Madhavan Nair: Yes.

NDTV: Wow, it really looks very nice .it is indeed small!
G Madhavan Nair: Well, I think if you say, in relative terms it is small, but compared to today, the Nano satellites and all what you are talking about, it is quite big - 1300 kg and almost the size of a Maruti car.

NDTV: Even a Maruti car can travel four hundred thousand kilometers to the moon - it is that size!

G Madhavan Nair: In fact our PSLV and GSLV rocket systems are very powerful. They can carry things about - if you put in the lower earth orbit - it can carry about three tonnes ..that is, including the passenger capacity and so on. So these types of rocket systems are very unique and we are developing and we are going to use the PSLV for taking the spacecraft to the moon.

NDTV: Why is it golden coloured sir?
G Madhavan Nair: You know, as you go into space, sometimes it will be looking at the sun, sometimes it will be looking at a hard vacuum, so temperature extremes are there. So the inside of the spacecraft will have to be maintained at a cool less than 30 degrees and maybe at a lower side of -10 degrees celcius. So in order to ensure that this protection is given

NDTV: So it is like a sweater on top of the satellite?
G Madhavan Nair: A sweater, and also a shield. For example, a lot of charge particles and all will come in. So when they impinge they will get conducted and so on some energy is dissipated. So it is a multipurpose protection shield .

NDTV: So that is why it is golden coloured and this golden thing you have developed here?
G Madhavan Nair: Yes, with special filling, which has to be on a plastic coated with gold and sometimes silver and so on. So a special vacuum coating process has been developed and initially of course we were getting from outside but today we have a totally indigenous process.

NDTV: So Chandrayaan, which will be India's maiden craft to the moon, what will it do sir? Is it carrying human beings?
G Madhavan Nair: No. This is actually a totally instrumented system.

NDTV: So it is an unmanned satellite?
G Madhavan Nair: Unmanned satellite, and it is mainly, almost like our earth observation satellite. This is going to observe the moon. So when we are in the lunar orbit it would take the stereoscopic image of the moon and try to see the altitude variations and so on.

NDTV: So it will essentially map the moon, one can say?
G Madhavan Nair: Absolutely. In fact today maps are available for certain specific regions with a low resolution. Here we have got imaging systems which will give almost 10m resolution. So it will be a precise image of the entire surface.

NDTV: Okay, so this will map the whole moon surface, and it will give us a map of .what resolution did you say?
G Madhavan Nair: About 10m and of course fine resolution 5m.

NDTV: 5m resolution is almost as good as our own IRS satellites?
G Madhavan Nair: Yes, IRS-P Resourcesat series is almost the same.

NDTV: And with that we will be able to get a complete map of the moon?
G Madhavan Nair: Right. It just goes around the moon and it takes almost two years to get the surface. In between some eclipse periods are there, so all put together we can cover in less than two years.

NDTV: And we don't have a complete map of the moon?
G Madhavan Nair: Not to this precision. People are attempting, you know that US satellite is going to be launched next year; and then we have the Chinese satellite which is already there, Japanese satellites are there, so all of them are trying to make a similar thing, but a different class. But uniqueness of this is not only the terrain, it is also trying to look for minerals.

NDTV: So there are various instruments on this which are these .. this is a ranging instrument here?
G Madhavan Nair: You can see this is a laser here which will send laser beams down to the surface which will reflect from the surface from where you will get the relative height and this can measure up to few centimeters.

NDTV: This means the height it will measure
G Madhavan Nair: But at the same time you know inaccuracies will come because of orbit etc. All put together a few meters we can resolve with this.

NDTV: And in this?
G Madhavan Nair: This is a unique instrument which is developed here.

NDTV: This is an Indian instrument?
G Madhavan Nair: Yes.

NDTV: And you also have some instruments from overseas; maybe we can go around and check that?
G Madhavan Nair: These are small tiny thrusters for altitude and so on.

NDTV: This is meant for keeping it in orbit in the correct place?
MN: This is actually used to boost the trajectory from the initial earth orbit of around 23,000 km to four hundred thousand km. So this will be turned in three sequences cumulatively for almost two hours and then that will give the energy to go to the moon.

NDTV: So this is powered by petrol or do you have some special fuel?
G Madhavan Nair: No, this is actually special, N2O4 and UDMH.

NDTV: So some special kinds of rocket fuels are there?
G Madhavan Nair: Rocket Fuel and oxidizer stored inside and there is a pressurization tank and so on and these are ones used in our INSAT satellites and they are well proven ones.

NDTV: So it has enough fuel to go these four lakh km? No problems?
G Madhavan Nair: Yes.

NDTV: No problems about that?
G Madhavan Nair: There are sufficient margins on that. And here you see the antenna this is actually a synthetic aperture radar.

NDTV: Oh this is the MINI SAR which has come from America?
G Madhavan Nair: Yes.

NDTV: This is what you are flying free for America?
G Madhavan Nair: Actually I will not say free. We will get the data out of that.

NDTV:You will get the data from this which will be shared by the Indians and the rest of the scientists?
G Madhavan Nair: Yes, that is right. And this instrument is going to look for moisture and water ice of course we have no proof yet, but we are just trying to search.

NDTV: So this is what will tell us if there is water on the moon or not?
G Madhavan Nair: Absolutely.

NDTV: So which is one of the big challenges - you are looking for water on the moon?
G Madhavan Nair: Yes, actually that is also one of the major experiments.

NDTV: So if you find water, what does it mean for us? What does it mean for say Kalavati or Rekha - somebody who is a normal human being in India? What does it mean if you find water?
G Madhavan Nair: I don't think it will be affordable to bring water from the moon to here.

NDTV: No, but what does it mean from there?
G Madhavan Nair: If you are thinking of establishing lunar colony, water is essential element for that and if from it you can generate oxygen, and also if you can decompose and generate into fuel which is required for interplanetary travel, so the presence of water is a very-very important element for further exploration.

NDTV: So for future missions if there is water you don't have to carry from here?
G Madhavan Nair: Absolutely.

NDTV:So you will save a lot of travel cost of water, cargo costs
G Madhavan Nair: See, today if you want, every drop of water that is required, it has to be carried from here, which is impossible, so this becomes a very important finding.

NDTV: You are also looking for some elements which generate energy there, Helium-3, I am told. What is that?
G Madhavan Nair: Basically you know this has got a general map - one instrument has come from the US, one is ours. Various emissions from the lunar surface, from there we will try to see what kind of elements are there on the surface, and one of the things which we are looking for is Helium-3. It is ejected from the solar system, and it is believed that it will come and impinge on our home and then absorb into some of the compounds and so on, and if it is there, Helium 3 as you know is used for fusion reaction, and even one ton of that can sustain the entire country's energy for one year.

NDTV: One ton for the entire country!
G Madhavan Nair: Yes.

NDTV: And you think there is Helium-3 there?
G Madhavan Nair: Definitely there is Helium-3, but is it in abundant quantity; whether we can exploit, these are question marks.

NDTV: So you are hoping to, if it works out in coming years, do some mining on the moon?
G Madhavan Nair: Certainly. See, not only Helium-3, if any other precious metal is there, so it provides an opportunity for mining and bringing here.

NDTV: I believe you are carrying the largest spate of instruments as carried to moon by any other aircraft till date?
G Madhavan Nair: Yes, as compared to other countries, we have a good combination. Primarily it is an Indian mission. Six instruments are developed by the Indian community, then we have provided the opportunity for some of the foreign scientists to co-operate. Two instruments have come from USA and four from Europe. So it means a dozen instruments, perhaps the largest which is carried by a spacecraft.

NDTV: Sir, earlier this year you created a world record by placing ten satellites in space. So we are hoping to create another world record by carrying these number of instruments?
G Madhavan Nair: Not only number of instruments, this is a fine example of international cooperation in space exploration. We have brought almost six countries from outside India to be working with our scientists in the entire mission.

NDTV: There is also on this spacecraft I am told, some instrument which will land on the moon. What is that and what will it do?
G Madhavan Nair: Basically, you go to a new territory, we want to establish presence you drop your flag it has been conceived along that line, this particular box which you see here is roughly about 40 kg, it will detach from the main spacecraft and it will send you the trajectory which will impact the moon surface.

NDTV: When will this happen?
G Madhavan Nair: Once the orbit is stabilized around 100 km then we will give a nudge, then a small rocket which you see here will give it a nudge there is another set of engines which will reduce the speed so that it can get into a trajectory.

NDTV: So when Chandrayaan is going around the moon, this particular box, what is called a Moon Impactor Probe, will detach from the mother craft and separate and land on the moon?
G Madhavan Nair: Absolutely. So it will land on the moon. But of course it will throw up dust but as it is impacting, it will kick up dust. So there is an analyzer .

NDTV: So there are some instruments on this?
G Madhavan Nair: Some instruments which will look at the fine elements out of this. There is a mass spectrometer and also there is a camera which will be taking closer pictures. So it is a very unique experiment and I must tell you that our ex president, Dr. Kalam, he is the person who triggered this process. When I made a presentation on the scope etc, he said, "What! You are not doing anything on the surface of the moon?" This is the question he asked. Then obviously we said okay, we will come back and within a few months our scientists had come up with the beautiful idea and we are finally

NDTV: So this is not just science, if you tell me, there is also geo politics here. Sir, we are carrying a flag inside this?
G Madhavan Nair: Absolutely. The Indian flag is very much there, and it will be on the surface of the moon when it reaches there.

NDTV: So if we put the flag there sometime this year, then I am told India becomes the fourth country there after USA, Russia, and Japan possibly with Hiten spacecraft. India becomes the fourth country to do this?
G Madhavan Nair: Absolutely. India becomes the fourth country to do this.

NDTV: Are you delighted with that? Excited?
G Madhavan Nair: It is really a thrilling experience to think our national flag, to be put up there.

NDTV: So the Indian flag will go on the moon?
G Madhavan Nair: Yes, but it will not flutter it is only a solid piece.

NDTV: It will not flutter. Obviously it can't flutter, there is no atmosphere there?
G Madhavan Nair: You know the controversies created with respect to the landing and they found that .

NDTV: (Laughs) So that is why we are not doing any fluttering, we will keep it there?
G Madhavan Nair: Absolutely.

NDTV: And it will remain there
G Madhavan Nair: Right.

NDTV: So whenever the moon resources are shared India would have a right to all that?
G Madhavan Nair: Well, today, as per the international charter, the moon belongs to the global community. Nobody can make special claim on the surface. But in due course, we don't know how things will change. But our presence will be established through this mission.

NDTV: So like the Antarctica we created a base, and if ever the resources are shared India is party to that. So the Moon Impactor Probe is also a way of establishing India's presence on the moon?
G Madhavan Nair: That is one part of it and also our scientific community will have a comprehensive map of the moon in terms of terrain as well as minerals. This is a very unique opportunity and we will be able to globally contribute to it.

NDTV: So we will put our flag there. We will do that.
G Madhavan Nair: Yes

NDTV: I was told when you were a little boy your grandmother used to promise you the moon. What is that story sir?
G Madhavan Nair: Well, I think it is a very common one, you ask anybody they will say the same thing, when especially as a child you will always be mischievous and may not be .

NDTV: You were mischievous eh?
G Madhavan Nair: Like anybody else. Then the first offer would be, just point at the moon and say I will give you the moon, if you take one more spoon of food and so on. So that used to be my ..I lost my mother very early ..so my grandmother looked after me those days.

NDTV: I am so sorry
G Madhavan Nair: And she has promised the moon to me in those days. And today, after six decades .

NDTV: So she used to call you a nallakutty - if you will be a nallakutty you will get the moon. Nallakutty means good boy?
G Madhavan Nair: Good boy, that is right. Always used to call like that. And even today, to my grandson, my wife always tells, okay I will get you the moon. So now I have an opportunity to take something at least very close to the moon. Of course one thing you know, the poets and all, right from the early days, they are so much enthused by the lunar presence. A lot of romance and all that, but I don't know, when you go and have a close look at it, whether that moon is going to be that beautiful, charming- we have to wait and see. There are a lot of pock marks and things like that, but they are very interesting you know. That will be because of the impact of some asteroids and so on, and the type of elements which are deposited there and how the moon itself, it spun off from the earth at some point of time of evolution. And it is not affected by atmospheric phenomenon and so on. So we get a fundamental knowledge about the universe out of this. So our exploration is meant towards that.

NDTV: So it is exploration. It is a scientific mission?
G Madhavan Nair: Absolutely. So we want to learn more about the moon and the evolution of the planetary system through this thing and very beautiful combination of 12 sets of instruments flying on board will throw a lot of challenges to the scientific community and enough volumes of data for them to work for almost a decade to come.

NDTV: So what your grandmother promised six decades ago, you have remained a good boy all along and hoping to go to the moon this year?
G Madhavan Nair: I don't know whether I have been a good boy. See, of course I have committed myself to the space program right from the beginning. Dr Vikram Sarabhai started my career in the mid sixties and Dr Kalam was my guru in the initial phases. I have learnt while I worked in this organization and I am happy that I am able to make a contribution.

NDTV: Let us take a little round while you tell us a little more about ..
G Madhavan Nair: Before that I would like to introduce two of my colleagues, Dr M Annadurai- he is another key person, the project director for Chandrayaan-1.

NDTV: He is the project director. He looks very proud and happy!
G Madhavan Nair: He has just made the spacecraft and all the tests are over; he has got a tremendous task. He doesn't sleep for more than a few hours every day and drives every team members to the goal. Dr T K Alex here is the director of the ISRO satellite centre.

NDTV: Hello Dr Alex, pleasure meeting you. You also have an instrument flying on this? You have one of the instruments flying on this?
Dr. Alex :Yes

NDTV: Which is your instrument? The ranging instrument which we saw here? This laser ranging instrument? This will get the height
Dr. Alex : height, and all the cameras are made in India, including the lenses. This is the first time Indian optics is going into space

NDTV: Are you happy?
Dr. Alex : Extremely happy

NDTV: You worked very long
G Madhavan Nair: You know this three meters distance, how difficult it is .

NDTV: Three meters is about my height double my height
G Madhavan Nair: These would take the images in our observation satellite from 600 km above and then try to design objects as small as one meter. So that is the kind of challenge you know, huge mirrors, optical systems, then the sensors, electronics, all of them put together - it is a fantastic development as far as our country is concerned. We have a world class technology.

NDTV: Dr Alex has played a big role in that?
G Madhavan Nair: Right

NDTV: In the instrumentation, and you have played a big role in getting the satellite together
G Madhavan Nair: No, he himself is a specialist in satellite technology. But mostly it is a very complex system. You have hundreds of sub-systems and parts here to ensure their performances are okay, their subsystems are okay, they survive all the environment that is coming in.

NDTV: It is a hostile environment!
G Madhavan Nair: Absolutely. Space environment is not that friendly so we have to make things work in that. So that really becomes a challenge. One has to be always alert, looking for problems, solving them in near real time and the fact that this whole spacecraft took shape in about two years time from T-zero to now. So that also is perhaps a good record as far as such complex systems are

NDTV: So shall we take a little we'll take a little parikrama around the satellite - our homage to Chandrayaan, your effort
G Madhavan Nair: You have seen the ground tracking system, a huge antenna you know, 32m - a counterpart of that is what you are seeing here - a small antenna.

NDTV: Oh this is what will pick up the signal or send the signal?
G Madhavan Nair: Send the signal.

NDTV: Send the signal, okay
G Madhavan Nair: Whatever is processed here, that is converted into digital data and transmitted over a microwave link. So this parabolic antenna is now covered.

NDTV: Sure. That you are covering so dust should not go in
G Madhavan Nair: Not only dust you know, here the particle impingement and all is dangerous, plus the thermal control is also so you know to avoid thermal radiation, heating up.

NDTV: Okay, shall we go around a little bit so our viewers get a full view of what Chandrayaan was and is .
G Madhavan Nair: Of course power is generated through solar energy.

NDTV: Oh that is the solar the one which is covered there?
G Madhavan Nair: Yes, that is a set of solar panels

NDTV: So that is the powerhouse for this satellite?
G Madhavan Nair: 2.5 Kilowatt power is generated.

NDTV: Maybe we can go around this too many cables there and this is a very delicate place. This is 400 crores worth of equipment?
G Madhavan Nair: Not exactly. This is about 200 crores.

NDTV: That is a lot of money.
G Madhavan Nair: Not just 200 crores, it is also three years' effort. If something goes wrong ..

NDTV: Sir you are looking at this is called Chandrayaan-1. So are there going to be more missions like this?
G Madhavan Nair: Yes, I think while this is getting realized, we have worked on a project that is the next phase. If you see that there is going to be some regions of interest where - Helium or water or maybe a special mineral is there. Next right approach is to send an instrument which can land on the lunar surface, pick up the sample, do the chemical analysis and confirm our finding. Because these are all indirect measurements.

NDTV: Yes, this is looking from top, 100 km away?
G Madhavan Nair: Unless you go and take some samples we cannot really confirm that ..so follow-on mission is required. So we are going to have Chandrayaan-2 which will have a similar orbiter.

NDTV: But you have something which is actually landing and moving there?
G Madhavan Nair: Yes, the second mission will have a lander and a rover and the rover will be able to pick up samples and do the chemical analysis and transmit the data. So this project we have submitted to the government and they have given approval for it and if all operations go all right, then 2011-2012 timeframe we will be able to have Chandrayaan-2 mission.

NDTV: So is there a Chandrayaan-2, or will there be 3,4,5?
G Madhavan Nair: If the scientists come out with ideas yes, we will definitely support. In fact these missions what we have conceived is really cost effective; see for example the entire ground setup plus on board systems put together is only about 400 crores. I don't think any other country has done in this amount.

NDTV: I know the the Japanese mission is four times more costly
G Madhavan Nair: Yes, so we are cost effective means of taking the mission to moon .but I am looking for the scientists to come forward with good ideas so we can have more and more missions. In addition, we are looking for a Mars mission.

NDTV: Indian mission to Mars?
G Madhavan Nair: Yes. For example the GSLV can take nearly five hundred kg spacecraft to Mars. So if there are good ideas about experimental exploration of that system we can have the Mars mission and in about 3-4 years we can have such missions.

NDTV: So moon is where we are going first, but you have your eyes on Mars as well?
G Madhavan Nair: That is a logical step to go.

NDTV: And you don't want to miss that opportunity. You are ready for it?
G Madhavan Nair: As you see India has really established itself in space technology. Today we are as good as anybody else in the world in terms of making our satellite, sending them into the orbit, having our orbit system and so on. And with this technology we have to maintain our leadership. If we want to maintain our leadership naturally we have to have the scientific goals which is set ahead so that we can be really either at par or ahead of the others in some of the fields. So this is a really challenging task. We believe that India, such a big nation, huge resources, both natural and human resource we should be in leadership position as far as our space technology is concerned.

NDTV: All we have talked about till now is unmanned. There is no human being which is going to sit in the satellite and go to the moon. But you are also dreaming of putting .
G Madhavan Nair: I wish I could do that of course instruments can do quite a lot with instrumented systems. But if certain finer observations are to be made, online decisions have to be made, the presence of man becomes important. The man behind the instrument. And also the reaction time for any decision will be a fraction of a second, whereas you know it takes almost eight seconds for the data to come from the moon to the earth and then again sent back and so on, and here also somebody has to analyse. So ultimately if you want to do a perfect experiment, man behind the instrument is a must and we have, sort of completed, conceptual studies, that is about a year back. Since then we have progressed to trying to define what type of capsule should be

NDTV: So you are looking at putting man in space?
G Madhavan Nair: I think we cannot afford to be lagging behind the other countries like USA, China and Russia in having access for human to the space. So from that point of view the technology development, and then trying to have our own rockets carrying Indian astronauts into space should be a reality in the near future.

NDTV: So you are saying, we'll have Indian people on indigenous Indian rockets going to space from Sriharikota?
G Madhavan Nair: This is the ambitious goal we have defined for ourselves. We have really identified the tasks which needs to be done, the type of facilities to be established, the technologies to be developed and also the funding which is required. Government has already given some pre-project funding, we have initiated some activities, but I hope formal project approval will be available soon. And once that is there by 2015 we will have this dream come true.

NDTV: 2015! That is barely seven or eight years from now. You are willing to take an Indian in space from an Indian rocket?
G Madhavan Nair: We have the competence to do it and if approval from the government is available we will do it

NDTV: How expensive or cheap is it to put human beings in space?
G Madhavan Nair: It is really expensive if you look from the Indian context but at the same time if you look at the type of space budget, space program .

NDTV: How much will it cost sir? What is your projection?
G Madhavan Nair: This is about Rs. 10,000 crores.

NDTV: 10,000 crores!!! That is a lot of money sir! I don't pay that much tax
G Madhavan Nair: No, you look at it this way. If you look at US, the Japanese, their annual budget is much more than this.

NDTV: More than 10,000 crores, which you want to do
G Madhavan Nair: Yes, whereas in the Indian context we are committed to taking the space technology for grass root applications. We have done that and we will continue to do so. So nearly 80 per cent of the budget is going to be spent on programs which are relevant to the common man.

NDTV: So you will continue to do what you are doing, which is looking at earth.
G Madhavan Nair: Absolutely.

NDTV: You will not fly into space and remain there?
G Madhavan Nair: As long as we are on the planet earth we have to service the human beings who are here and we are fully committed to that in our Earth observation system, the environment monitoring system, the climatic change monitoring, the communication system

NDTV: So you will continue looking for drinking water on the earth while you are looking for water on the moon, both?
G Madhavan Nair: There is plenty of water on the earth, but how to manage the water here on the earth very well and how to use the natural resources in an effective manner, that will be our priority. So the major part of our budget is going to be utilized for that. But a small fraction of that, roughly it comes to about 16 per cent of our budget if we spend on the manned mission, we can have the leadership established

NDTV: A lot of people say this - Rs 10,000 crores is a lot of money. These instruments for putting those rockets are really toys for big boys, and you have been a good boy so you are getting these toys. How do you justify that we need to spend this money?
G Madhavan Nair: I cannot subscribe to this view at all. First of all you take the space program. If you bill it to 2003, that is when we made the benchmark study, we have spent nearly 2 billion dollars - that is equivalent to 8000 crores for us, on the space program. Then this study which is conducted in terms of the benefits given to the country, it adds to more than 12,000 crores. Leave alone that, we have the technologies what is established.

NDTV: So for every rupee spent, how much does ISRO give back to Indian society?
G Madhavan Nair: Average benefit is 1 rupee.

NDTV: So for every rupee spent, ISRO is giving Re 1.50 back to the Indian society?
G Madhavan Nair: That's right. That is the first part of it.

NDTV: That is a good rate of return
MN: The second part is, the human resource and the technology we create, that is not valued. That is tremendous.

NDTV: Meaning your value?
G Madhavan Nair: Like me there are thousands of engineers, so many people are here.

NDTV: Annadurai, Alex
G Madhavan Nair: And you cannot put a price tag on them .the technology we have developed - if you sell that in the global market, that itself will get five times more then this. So that way I think our space program has been done really on a shoe string budget and we are able to give the returns. And at the same time ..

NDTV: The people who say, the people who say this is ISRO wasting money, that is not a good argument?
G Madhavan Nair: No.

NDTV: You are not wasting money?
G Madhavan Nair: I can confidently stand in front of anybody and justify every paisa spent on the space program and how the returns are being given to the country. In addition, it is a national prestige. And the second part is, with respect to the challenges we are bringing to the scientific community - you know our scientists are really brainy chaps and they can .

NDTV: Yeah absolutely.
G Madhavan Nair: So you provide them with an opportunity; through this Chandrayaan mission, I am going to have at least a few hundred scientists in the researchers level, they will access this data and do fundamental research on the planetary system .

NDTV: Origin of the moon, where you came from ..everybody wants to understand that
G Madhavan Nair: So you don't have to depend on any foreign data for this purpose. You have got your own data. And that will be more than a few hundred crores what we are giving back.

NDTV: You mentioned a little earlier this issue of national prestige - in this is it national prestige or science which is taking precedence, or both?
G Madhavan Nair: First of all as far as ISRO is concerned it is a scientific challenge. But a country like ours, when we are talking about reaching developed status, the technology, that only can give you the strength. In this field of space technology whether it is rocket or satellites or applications, we are at par with anybody else in the world.

NDTV: So are we developing or developed?
G Madhavan Nair: As far as space technology is concerned we are developed, and we can stand shoulder to shoulder with anybody in the world.

NDTV: You are developed and you can stand shoulder to shoulder to NASA and ESA?
G Madhavan Nair: Absolutely. In fact NASA chief himself has come here and he has seen these things. In the end what he told was, see this is like 1/10 of the NASA budget. We are doing much more than what NASA is doing. This is exactly what he has told us. And I wish I could have such a program. You know when we talked about recoverable and reusable systems and everything, he was really thrilled. And so much of encouragement. And of course he himself is a technologist.

NDTV: So are you looking for collaboration with America?
G Madhavan Nair: Well, in some areas definitely collaboration is possible, especially in the scientific front, exploration of the moon, planetary system and all. You know .

NDTV: So India and America can hope to go to the moon together?
G Madhavan Nair: Well you know the US systems. They have their own legislation

NDTV: Constraints they have, technology denial, control, yes .
G Madhavan Nair: Those things have to be overcome, we are slowly moving forward, for example in spacecraft related activities, scientific exploration .but there are many other areas still, embargoes continue .but I am sure by working together for future missions we will be able to work out these things.

NDTV: Sir you have mentioned about national prestige. Sir we have seen this new race to the moon; in the earlier decades it was America and Russia which were doing it. Are the Asians leading now?
G Madhavan Nair: Well, you know in the sixties and the seventies actually it was cold war era and there was a competition between Russia and America on this and the real show of strength was having access to the moon. Of course the Russians followed with instrumental exploration. But they are all concentrated on specific regions on the lunar surface. But at the same time today if you look at the origin of the earth ..

NDTV; Last one year, see we have seen a mission first by Japan, then by China and now India is doing .so the second race to the moon is in a way an Asian race?
G Madhavan Nair: Well, I think the Asian countries happened to coincide in their thinking but the instruments are of different types. So perhaps this data will become complementary. There is nothing like a race. It is an interest ..

NDTV: So you are not racing with China? They did it earlier.
G Madhavan Nair: No, I think we are not into any competition in this .it is actually the absolute requirement of the scientific community we met with our scientific program. In fact India always believed our space program has to be based on national needs, rather than any competition with any other country. So we have really maintained that status and of course, the renewed interest has come mainly because of the possibility of exotic minerals including Helium 3 on the surface and also the possibility of colonization of the moon in due course. Already US and China have declared they will have the manned mission to moon by 2020. So that means they are thinking of establishing the base and .

NDTV: And then a future colony there
G Madhavan Nair: Yes, so that is the kind of race which is going to be in future

NDTV: So can India have a colony on the moon sometime?
G Madhavan Nair: We cannot lag behind others in this race. We have to really catch up and we should have our own technology for the manned capsule. Of course initial thing would be around earth itself, then from there how to send a man to the moon etc has to be considered. And today with the economic growth what you are seeing in the country this is affordable. And a very small fraction of the national budget we spend on space technology. It is really worth it. In fact if you take the entire budget for the space program it is like 0.2-0.3 of the national budget. So it is very small compared to . others are using even up to 2 per cent or 3 per cent.

NDTV: So are you nervous, are you anxious, are you getting butterflies in your stomach? Chandrayaan will fly to the moon?
G Madhavan Nair: Well, as you know, any space mission is really complex, highly demanding and it will not tolerate even the slightest error. From that point of view yes, we have always our worries.

NDTV: It is an experiment
G Madhavan Nair: We are going to travel first time from 36,000 km orbit geosynchronous to almost ten times more than that .almost four lakh km ..travel itself how precisely we can reach there how we can make the orbit, that itself gives us lot of worries. Everything has to work with a clockwork precision and every instrument has to work, then only we can

NDTV: Have you put in the best effort you can?
G Madhavan Nair: Absolutely. ISRO makes no compromises on any of these things we go through previews at various stages, have tests carried out and also we carried out stimulations and so on .computer stimulations of the mission and all these are done ..still you know there is an element of doubt ..of course, yes.

NDTV: Are you worried at all?
G Madhavan Nair: No, not overly .but we have to be alert, we have to be active so it should go all right, we have done our best.

NDTV: So there you have it .ISRO chairman Madhavan Nair who says he has hopefully remained a good boy all through these six decades and hopes the good wishes would come through.

He says ISRO has been alert in putting this mission together and hopes that Chandrayaan-2 will fly to the moon, reach the moon, do its objectives, and then there is Chandrayaan-2, a mission to Mars, and hopefully very soon an Indian on an Indian rocket to space and then maybe to moon. And as he said, India can't lag behind, hopefully India will have a colony on the moon.